I had always assumed you guys were going to stick to the stock 3S block to stay within 2.0L displacement for rally regulations. Then, in the Q&A video you said firmly, again, that Binky would be a road car and wouldn't be allowed in any rally races.
So that made me wonder if you'd considered using a 5S-FE block. I've heard of people using it with the 3S crank, along with mostly other 3S parts, just because the 5S is a tougher block that will handle more boost. Another option that I've heard of a few MR-2 guys doing is build a 5S-GTE which is mostly a 3S-GTE but includes the 5S crank and bumps displacement up to 2.2L. Extra low end torque doesn't sound at all bad for a road car.
Here's some info on the best S series engine that toyota never actually made*
*Ok I think they might have made a few for racing supras.
Baron von Teuchter said
Feb 27, 2018
I think they used the 3sgte cause it was in a car they had lying around...!
Kiwi Paul said
Feb 28, 2018
It was a car that they had driven many miles in. It got rear-ended and written off. They decided to put its mechanicals into an unsuspecting Mini shell.... I get the impression that it might have been easier and quicker to repair that bent Celica shell. But Nik 'n Rich don't do 'easy'.....
GrayRaceCat said
Mar 1, 2018
And it wouldn't have been near as much fun to watch!
Bad Obsession said
Mar 1, 2018
Acually, Nik did repair the damaged Celica after buying it back from the insurance company and used it for a few months before switching to his current steed. But you're right, we had a complete engine in stock, so to speak, so we're using that.
KneeDeep said
Mar 4, 2018
Alas, I was really hoping for a (few) engine build videos.
Though just in case it wasn't clear, I *do* think you should use your 3S-GTE...just perhaps only the top end of it.
If you ever decide to rebuild your 3S. It looks like the 5S-FE was in the UK on 90s Camrys, so you might be able to good deal on a block & crank from one of those. I've heard that both blocks use the same mounts. I don't know about precise external dimensions though, and that's a serious concern for Binky's under-hood, uh err, under-bonnet space.
Forsh said
Mar 4, 2018
Bad Obsession wrote:
Acually, Nik did repair the damaged Celica...
Although easily confused I did wonder about the pics I've seen with the arse end stuffed and then Ep 1 it looks fine when you're hooning around the field!
Anyhoo, swapping the block willy nilly is going to do nothing for binkys originality and authenticity!
KneeDeep said
Mar 4, 2018
Forsh wrote:
Anyhoo, swapping the block willy nilly is going to do nothing for binkys originality and authenticity!
Haha! Good point! I seem to recall him wanting to keep the car as original as possible.
GrayRaceCat said
Mar 6, 2018
KneeDeep, I've always wondered how people know this type of stuff, have you/they done the research and testing of the parts themselves, or are you/they privy to some internal engineering department source who was involved in the design phase of the parts? Not having the time or finances to test and experiment, I find myself feeling a little inadequate in this department and unsure where to look for education or information on the subject.
-- Edited by GrayRaceCat on Tuesday 6th of March 2018 08:52:49 PM
KneeDeep said
Mar 7, 2018
GrayRaceCat wrote:
KneeDeep, I've always wondered how people know this type of stuff, have you/they done the research and testing of the parts themselves, or are you/they privy to some internal engineering department source who was involved in the design phase of the parts? Not having the time or finances to test and experiment, I find myself feeling a little inadequate in this department and unsure where to look for education or information on the subject.
In my case, I'm a 6th Gen Celica enthusiast. I have a 99 st204 usdm fwd, the only acceleration I have is through gearing. All my research is years of accumulated info from internet articles and forums and learning what I can from talking to the mechanics I take my vehicles to, they usually are ok to explain stuff, and even show you stuff if it looks like you're interested (* I'm in the usa so there may be cultural differences in other countries). I feel you on the "find myself feeling a little inadequate in this department". I work on my own car a bit right now, but I wouldn't by any means call myself a proficient mechanic.
First time I heard of a guy building the 5S-GTE was I think someone in Australia. Sounded like a really cool best of both worlds idea, but sounded really complicated with a fair bit of fabrication. Years later, at a party, an MR2 guy I know mentioned the 5S-GTE and told me that a few MR2 guys build them and it isn't that difficult. He told me to look it up and that's where I found those links in my first post.
here's a dyno run of a 5S-GTE MR2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-maf6PM1V8
Later on I found out that this legendary 6th gen was powered with it as well:
http://www.6gc.net/celicas/1998-gt-hatchback-7148
Also: a long time ago I read that most racing mk4 supras would ditch the 2JZ-GTE inline 6 and instead go for the 3S-GTE for the simple reason that it's lighter, and it could meet their hp goals. Sorta makes sense: If a 3S-GTE @ (speculation) 600-800bhp performs just as well on the circuits you'll be racing as a 1500bhp 2JZ, while being lighter. More recently I found an article talking about these racing supras and it monetioned they used stroked crank-shafts to get to 2.2L (sounded familiar), but then some went back to just the 2.0L cranks (presumably more rev-happy, but less low end torque). Which I guess makes sense again, in a professional race team, I would guess you pay your mechanics a salary, so them having to work to keep the car going is no biggie.
I also heard somewhere, probably 6gc.net, that if you're going to rebuild a 3S-GTE always use a 5S block, even if you're not using the 2.2L crank, just because the block is stronger, especially so if you can get the one from 98+, and if you're tearing down the engine anyway...
I get the impression that engine builds are a little more of a US thing to do than in other parts of the world, but they showed Sarah's work on that engine head, so that's why I thought it could be something they'd do.
So that's the story of where I got the information/leads on all this specifically.
Timdebeus88 said
Sep 6, 2019
I don't know about the 3s and 5s blocks, but i don't think the 5s will fitt. I myself have build a toyota 5efte engine out of a 4efte 1.3turbo and a 5efe n/a 1.5. You can also use the 4efte head and turbo on the 5efe, with lower compression piston etc. but the difference in displacement between the block is not the bore but the stroke. So the 5efe block is like 1,5cm taller. I think it's the same with the 3s and 5s, and while i had room to spare and had to modify some brackets and the exhaust, I don't think they have the room for that😅
I had always assumed you guys were going to stick to the stock 3S block to stay within 2.0L displacement for rally regulations. Then, in the Q&A video you said firmly, again, that Binky would be a road car and wouldn't be allowed in any rally races.
So that made me wonder if you'd considered using a 5S-FE block. I've heard of people using it with the 3S crank, along with mostly other 3S parts, just because the 5S is a tougher block that will handle more boost. Another option that I've heard of a few MR-2 guys doing is build a 5S-GTE which is mostly a 3S-GTE but includes the 5S crank and bumps displacement up to 2.2L. Extra low end torque doesn't sound at all bad for a road car.
Here's some info on the best S series engine that toyota never actually made*
http://www.mr2oc.com/61-3sgte-turbo/395274-how-build-5sgte.html
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/103-camry-3rd-4th-gen-1992-1996-1997-2001-1st-gen-solara-1999-2003/301363-how-5sgte-3sgte-cylinder-head-swap-your-5sfe-block.html
*Ok I think they might have made a few for racing supras.
Alas, I was really hoping for a (few) engine build videos.
Though just in case it wasn't clear, I *do* think you should use your 3S-GTE...just perhaps only the top end of it.
If you ever decide to rebuild your 3S. It looks like the 5S-FE was in the UK on 90s Camrys, so you might be able to good deal on a block & crank from one of those. I've heard that both blocks use the same mounts. I don't know about precise external dimensions though, and that's a serious concern for Binky's under-hood, uh err, under-bonnet space.
Although easily confused
I did wonder about the pics I've seen with the arse end stuffed and then Ep 1 it looks fine when you're hooning around the field!
Anyhoo, swapping the block willy nilly is going to do nothing for binkys originality and authenticity!
Haha! Good point! I seem to recall him wanting to keep the car as original as possible.
KneeDeep, I've always wondered how people know this type of stuff, have you/they done the research and testing of the parts themselves, or are you/they privy to some internal engineering department source who was involved in the design phase of the parts? Not having the time or finances to test and experiment, I find myself feeling a little inadequate in this department and unsure where to look for education or information on the subject.
-- Edited by GrayRaceCat on Tuesday 6th of March 2018 08:52:49 PM
In my case, I'm a 6th Gen Celica enthusiast. I have a 99 st204 usdm fwd, the only acceleration I have is through gearing. All my research is years of accumulated info from internet articles and forums and learning what I can from talking to the mechanics I take my vehicles to, they usually are ok to explain stuff, and even show you stuff if it looks like you're interested (* I'm in the usa so there may be cultural differences in other countries). I feel you on the "find myself feeling a little inadequate in this department". I work on my own car a bit right now, but I wouldn't by any means call myself a proficient mechanic.
First time I heard of a guy building the 5S-GTE was I think someone in Australia. Sounded like a really cool best of both worlds idea, but sounded really complicated with a fair bit of fabrication. Years later, at a party, an MR2 guy I know mentioned the 5S-GTE and told me that a few MR2 guys build them and it isn't that difficult. He told me to look it up and that's where I found those links in my first post.
here's a dyno run of a 5S-GTE MR2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-maf6PM1V8
Later on I found out that this legendary 6th gen was powered with it as well:
http://www.6gc.net/celicas/1998-gt-hatchback-7148
Also: a long time ago I read that most racing mk4 supras would ditch the 2JZ-GTE inline 6 and instead go for the 3S-GTE for the simple reason that it's lighter, and it could meet their hp goals. Sorta makes sense: If a 3S-GTE @ (speculation) 600-800bhp performs just as well on the circuits you'll be racing as a 1500bhp 2JZ, while being lighter. More recently I found an article talking about these racing supras and it monetioned they used stroked crank-shafts to get to 2.2L (sounded familiar), but then some went back to just the 2.0L cranks (presumably more rev-happy, but less low end torque). Which I guess makes sense again, in a professional race team, I would guess you pay your mechanics a salary, so them having to work to keep the car going is no biggie.
I also heard somewhere, probably 6gc.net, that if you're going to rebuild a 3S-GTE always use a 5S block, even if you're not using the 2.2L crank, just because the block is stronger, especially so if you can get the one from 98+, and if you're tearing down the engine anyway...
I get the impression that engine builds are a little more of a US thing to do than in other parts of the world, but they showed Sarah's work on that engine head, so that's why I thought it could be something they'd do.
So that's the story of where I got the information/leads on all this specifically.