Wheels and tyres

Lambert the farmer · Member

Wheels and tyres

Bad Obsession · Senior Member

Lambert the farmer wrote:
Not with standing the need to go with the celica diameter to maintain the gearing and brake clearance, are you looking at being totally celica stock with the style and size of the wheel or are you planning on larger wheels and lower profile tyres? I know that on a mini celica wheels will look huge anyway but a set of 17s or 18s with slim sidewalls would be slick. Also will you be opting for a day to day tyre, as you are 4x4, or something more interesting?

We briefly touched on the tyres in an earlier episode. They will be 13" rims but we haven't decided on the style yet. Something simple we think!

Lambert the farmer · Member

13s! Good god how are you hoping to slow it down if you have 13 inch wheels, the brakes will be the size of jam jar lids?

theMINIguy · Newbie

Lambert the farmer wrote:
13s! Good god how are you hoping to slow it down if you have 13 inch wheels, the brakes will be the size of jam jar lids?

F1 use 13" wheels...

Lambert the farmer · Member

True but I doubt that it would be a cost effective system to employ on this project.

bigbadbugga · Member

Lambert the farmer wrote:
13s! Good god how are you hoping to slow it down if you have 13 inch wheels, the brakes will be the size of jam jar lids?

Its still only a mini, it doesn't matter how fast it is its still a similar mass to stop.

Any upgrade from the original brakes will be good enough to stop it IMO.

Lambert the farmer · Member

The greater the speed of an object of the more energy it has so more effort is required to slow it down. Binky has the potential to have well over 250 bhp and an equal possible top speed of over 150mph so even if by some miracle BOM can get the final mass close to that of a stock mini (which with motorised flip fronts and electric windows and 4wd and everything else we don't know about I seriously doubt ) the amount of energy the brakes have to dissipate is huge. Then there's also the duty cycle to consider, it's ok having the ability to stop from high speed once or twice but in a car with the performance potential of binky being able to stop quickly and often without cooking the brakes ought to be a vital primary design criteria not an after thought.

andsetinn · Senior Member

Well, farmer Lambert. This is actually not as big deal as you seem to think. As you point out, high speed and high mass will cause the brakes to have to work harder. On the other hand Binky will not weigh many tons so it will not be that hard to fit sufficient brakes with 13 inch wheels. It is after all a 70% step up from the original 10 inch wheels (in actual space inside the wheel, not diameter (which is 30% step up)) and brake technology has advanced quite a lot since the Mini was first built in the good old days when disk brakes were only a wet dream. Vented disk brakes for extra cooling, (carbon disks if they fancy the expense), high temperature brake pads, high temperature brake fluid and open aluminium wheels to suck away the most of the heat. Don't forget that that our tea loving lads have been racing (and maintaining) rally and track cars so they should be familiar with the Newton laws involved.

Here is where our tea loving chaps discuss what wheels go on the car. youtu.be/r0wMIF6EPfY

-- Edited by andsetinn on Tuesday 30th of June 2015 07:47:22 PM

Lambert the farmer · Member

Yeah that's fine but they ain't building a mini they are building a tweeked celica turbo in a mini shell. when celica was being rallied seriously back in the day they did not have 13 inch wheels and tiny brakes. Look at any modern high performance car from any of the car manufacturers and even with all the wazzy new non ferrous rotors being used they are all big diameter multi piston affairs to extract the most stopping available. If it only has little brakes even if high efficiency it may as well have a b series motor as it won't be able to capitalise on the turbo nutter engine it has.

Bad Obsession · Senior Member

We've got some tricks up out sleeve regarding the retardation of said vehicle. It won't come cheap though...

Lambert the farmer · Member

Ooh, mag lev witchcraft brakes?

andsetinn · Senior Member

All these wazzy high performance cars have ABS so the manufacturers can make the brakes too powerful and then depend on electronics for them to not lock up. Also, in my opinion (of course), these brakes are built to look good but not necessarily to work as well as they look. As The Mini Guy points out, F1 uses 13 inch wheels and more demanding braking situations are hard to find. And, lastly, by making the wheels and disks bigger the manufacturers can get away with making the disks from cheaper materials and the poor silly buyer will always buy bigger wheels because they look better, even when the compromise performance.
As someone who has been fettling with motorcycles for many years I know that too good brakes can cause loss of control and are therefore more dangerous than less powerful brakes, and ABS is for people who don't know how to drive :D.

Lambert the farmer · Member

As a former subaru devotee I will resist the temptation to point out that there is a significant difference between the braking characteristics of fast cars and crotch rockets. I will also decline to be drawn into an argument about why abs is such a very good idea, though being able to brake hard on surfaces other than warm dry tarmacadam without spearing into the nearest obstacle must have some benefits. Suffice to say that the better your brakes perform the faster you can get down the road, stage or circuit. Unless of course you're only bothered about dragging people off the line on a sunny summer evening.

andsetinn · Senior Member

The road should be like a beautiful woman. Smooth surface and full of curves. (other traffic is also undesirable) :)

Dieseldoctor · Newbie

Even if they left the brakes as they are it shouldn't be an issue, after all the Celica had the same potential for power and speed as the MINI. 13" diameter wheels have no bearing on the brakes it is the size of the wheels (rims). The RPM of different sized tires may have some bearing as to how fast/well it stops though. It's moot anyhow he said "it won't be cheap" so I'm guessing he is all over it.....

1275Duffer · Member

Retro-rockets?

Baron von Teuchter · Member

Next on project Binky. Inboard brakes! Nik fabricates brake cooling ducting from laminated cardboard tube. And the engine gets moved. Again.

Or, something more like this:

www.motorsport-tools.com/escort-mk1-mk2-ap-tarmac-radial-cp4567-brake-kit-wrc-disc-277-x-25mm-13-wheel.html

lauriekee · Member

Parachute - like a drag car! Clearly Nik will have to fabricate a retracting mechanism from a few bits of tube cunningly crafted brackets and a wiper motor from a vauxhall cavalier! Or, as Nik's trying to keep it as original as possible........... Air brakes!

Baron von Teuchter · Member

I reckon the switch to 4x stud hubs gives you all that opportunity to use stuff for old escorts - bloody great idea.

The Chief Smeg · Senior Member

You know I keep thinking about these and how they are described by Nick as “proof of concept”... I wonder what is actually planned; anyone else picked up on this or is it just me?

minimoke1968 · Member

I reckon they are giving themselves the opportunity to use some sort of lighter weight racing wheel from a certain time.

The Chief Smeg · Senior Member

I should go and have a look at the episode again and see what size rim it ends up as then go and have a look at what is commercially available.