Triumph Spitfire

DanN · Veteran Member

Triumph Spitfire

GrayRaceCat · Senior Member

Please excuse my ignorance, but what is PB?
Thanks GRC

gben · Veteran Member

GRC PB would be the ever changing "PROJECT BINKY":

GrayRaceCat · Senior Member

Well don't I feel stupid! (Thanks)

DanN · Veteran Member

Well, let's keep this in perspective - it took me 4 years to find PB in the first place...

GrayRaceCat · Senior Member

I've been a member of the forum since 4 months after it was founded, just a little slow in my old age. ;) On the other hand you probably didn't even know you were looking for PB until you found it! (Welcome aboard!)

DanN · Veteran Member

You're right; I didn't know I was looking for PB specifically - but they are doing the same basic thing I am, and it's kind of difficult to find people in that genre: Making old cars more like new cars, but not "hot rods", per se.

I figure the next generation of Hot Rodders will be Millennium type kids who want their car to be cool, and do the things their phones do. Digital dashes, touch control everything, even electric drive eventually - but you don't often see tech articles on retrofitting ABS or infotainment systems.

I'm really looking forward to where they take this project.

Forsh · Senior Member

LOL @ GRC & PB!

If you're looking for something to keep your interest going in restomods (between "PB" episodes) check out the guys at Old Bones and Retropower - particularly the Gordon Murray mk1 Escort video series

www.oldbonesfabrications.co.uk/projects

www.youtube.com/watch

:)

-- Edited by Forsh on Friday 16th of November 2018 07:23:25 AM

GrayRaceCat · Senior Member

DanN wrote:
" but you don't often see tech articles on retrofitting ABS or infotainment systems. "

Agreed, I think I know why, just found out Bosch has an ABS Retrofit kit online and its $8000 US!

DanN · Veteran Member

GrayRaceCat wrote:
Agreed, I think I know why, just found out Bosch has an ABS Retrofit kit online and its $8000 US!

So there is! http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/media/msd/downloads/archiv/bremssysteme_2/ABS_M4_Manual.pdf

And you CAN buy it! https://www.racedatasystems.com/products/bosch-motorsport-abs-m4-kit

£6,557.28. $11,153.44 Canadian Dollars HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Well that's just hateful. That's like triple what I've spent on the whole car so far.

So mostly it seems to be justification as to why one might want to adapt something they took from the wreckers. That manual gives some nice clues as to what you might need to have to get a Bosch system working, and by extension what kind of vehicles you might want to try and source your ECU from (Similar size and weight). The trouble would come in the tuning for your specific vehicle; wheelbase, track widths, CG, weight, etc all matters. You might be able to retrofit something that technically works, but might do sweet diddly to improve performance.

Still.. I'd love to try..

GrayRaceCat · Senior Member

DanN wrote:

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

"Well that's just hateful. That's like triple what I've spent on the whole car so far."

"So mostly it seems to be justification as to why one might want to adapt something they took from the wreckers. That manual gives some nice clues as to what you might need to have to get a Bosch system working, and by extension what kind of vehicles you might want to try and source your ECU from (Similar size and weight). The trouble would come in the tuning for your specific vehicle; wheelbase, track widths, CG, weight, etc all matters. You might be able to retrofit something that technically works, but might do sweet diddly to improve performance.

Still.. I'd love to try.."

As if to add salt to the wound the Bosch system is NOT street legal per the manufacturer.

Adapting what will come from a donor is what I had planned as well. I had planned on using it as an ABS only system. With the difficulty of implementing it at all I may as well try to include VST functionality.

It seems it will be some order of magnitude harder than I had imagined. hmm

DanN · Veteran Member

GrayRaceCat wrote:
As if to add salt to the wound the Bosch system is NOT street legal per the manufacturer.
Adapting what will come from a donor is what I had planned as well. I had planned on using it as an ABS only system. With the difficulty of implementing it at all I may as well try to include VST functionality.
It seems it will be some order of magnitude harder than I had imagined.

If we could get our hands on the config software it probably wouldn't be that big a deal. Mess it up though, and the results could be catastrophic. And I'm sure it's pure liability that forces Bosch to say their aftermarket system isn't street legal.

GrayRaceCat · Senior Member

DanN wrote:

If we could get our hands on the config software it probably wouldn't be that big a deal. Mess it up though, and the results could be catastrophic. And I'm sure it's pure liability that forces Bosch to say their aftermarket system isn't street legal.

Being that it's for motorsports I seem to recall reading that the software to calibrate is included.

For the price they're asking I would expect software to be included.

-- Edited by GrayRaceCat on Thursday 4th of April 2019 08:28:18 PM

DanN · Veteran Member

GrayRaceCat wrote:
Being that it's for motorsports I seem to recall reading that the software to calibrate is included.

What would be REALLY nice to have is software that could calibrate production parts. Bosch MK60 ABS units are pretty common (BMW, Audi..), and look pretty much the same as that aftermarket kit...

DanN · Veteran Member

Some progress has been made!

-- Edited by DanN on Friday 21st of May 2021 08:59:56 PM

(took out the inserted images for more friendly viewing!)

-- Edited by DanN on Friday 21st of May 2021 09:00:19 PM

DanN · Veteran Member

CAD Design. I didn't end up using it because once I had it to test fit it was clear it wasn't going to work. But that's the point of CAD, right?

DanN · Veteran Member

Click the attachments! :D

(took out the inserted images for more friendly viewing!)

-- Edited by DanN on Friday 21st of May 2021 09:00:56 PM

Kiwi Paul · Senior Member

Are you using standard Spitfire Mk4 rear suspension?

DanN · Veteran Member

Kiwi Paul wrote:
Are you using standard Spitfire Mk4 rear suspension?

Well.. for now, anyway. I may in the future switch to something different, perhaps rotoflex based with a Subaru diff or maybe something different entirely. If I do go that route it would have to be with CVs and not the rubber donut.

I made the decision a while ago that if I was ever going to be able to drive this car in my lifetime (and in my budget) I'd have to stick with the stock rear for now. And truth be told, I like the way the rear handles as it is - it's only the differential that I'm not happy with.

I have gone with swing spring and the later, wider axles and all GT6 brakes. We'll see how long the diff will survive; probably 100% right foot dependent.

DanN · Veteran Member

One step closer to the edge!

For the first time ever, power (sorta) from the engine turned the rear wheels. Unfortunately it was just the starter motor, but we'll take the wins where we find them.

Cooling system almost done, and thank it wasn't nearly as tricky as PB. But no AC or boost make it considerably simpler. The hose clamps I've used aren't ideal, but they are what I have right now.

(took out the inserted images for more friendly viewing!)

-- Edited by DanN on Friday 21st of May 2021 09:02:11 PM

DanN · Veteran Member

Not bad for a temporary dash I think.

DanN · Veteran Member

It's starting to look like a real car! (With really bad paint.. hahaha)

GrayRaceCat · Senior Member

Is vibration going to be an issue with the weld on the long pipe off the coolant tank?

DanN · Veteran Member

GrayRaceCat wrote:
Is vibration going to be an issue with the weld on the long pipe off the coolant tank?

It's made of some pretty heavy material, so probably not.. but I'm going to change it anyway. I have to pull the header tank off to make some other mods, so I'll change it then. In the meantime, it's working - so it's a little low on the priority list for now.

Been working on the tans tunnel... it would be really cool if BOM did some CAD tutorials.. :D

GrayRaceCat · Senior Member

Agreed, Fusion 360 is beyond both me and my PC, BOM CAD is more my speed!

It looks as though you've got a handle on it!

DanN · Veteran Member

I use Solidworks at work (occasionally).. but it tends to be significantly more precise than the car is.. haha!

DanN · Veteran Member

Had a render done on Fiverr to help me decide on paint.

Fiverr is now one of my favourite things. https://www.fiverr.com/hafizulmahput

DanN · Veteran Member

Bodywork is not my strong suit.

gben · Veteran Member

DanD proper Red Wrinkle cam cover I see.

DanN · Veteran Member

Only the best!

DanN · Veteran Member

It sure is fun to drive! Even if I did have to completely replace the motor and ECU after 300km.

Still a few pieces to colourize.

(took out the inserted images for more friendly viewing!)

-- Edited by DanN on Friday 21st of May 2021 09:01:43 PM

DanN · Veteran Member

Bit of an update for the spring of '21.

GrayRaceCat · Senior Member

I like the color, is it paint or a wrap? In fact, I like the entire build so, more photos PLEASE!

GrayRaceCat · Senior Member

What brought about the motor & ECU replacement?

DanN · Veteran Member

Hi GrayRaceCat!

GrayRaceCat wrote:
What brought about the motor & ECU replacement?

The original L61 was from an '05 Pontiac Sunfire; it turned cannibalistic and ate its own balance shafts while I was on a short road trip - about 25 miles (this was the first "long" trip with the car). They were clearly oil-starved, but I don't know what caused it. The oil pump looked good and there was plenty of oil in the pan.. oil that was quite pretty with all the aluminum sparkles in it! I wasn't pushing the car hard, but I was running at highway speeds for about 30 minutes. The lesson I learned was that I needed a proper oil pressure gauge, which the car now has (though the idiot light never came on, so.. I dunno). I chalked it up to the fact that the engine sat for nearly a decade after I originally collected it for the project, and maybe it had a mud wasp living in an oil gallery or something like that.

I picked up a newer second gen L61 from an '07 Pontiac - better cams, rated a little better power wise. Unfortunately it turned out to not be compatible with the original ECU I had - it couldn't see the crank pulses. Or maybe it could see them, but couldn't use them. I wasn't too heartbroken about it because the original ECU was pretty much an antique by tuning standards - so much so that you had to have a Windows XP computer to tune it at all, so it was an upgrade I wanted to make anyway. I had taken the factory ECU for that engine and it's related components when I pulled it from the wrecker. I picked up an HPtuners programmer with a couple credits and set the ECU to run standalone with the factory tune. It runs really nice. It's headed for the dyno on May 28 (just over a week from now), so it should be even nicer. We'll see how long the poor Triumph rear end survives.. I really hope to not see the death of it on the dyno though. HAHA. I have picked up an R160 rear from a Subaru to see if I can make the driveline angles work - but it will mean a complete rear end conversion away from the original swing axles. Stay tuned..

GrayRaceCat wrote:
I like the color, is it paint or a wrap? In fact, I like the entire build so, more photos PLEASE!

It is indeed a wrap. For about $150 CAD I figured a wrap would look better than primer for a couple years until I could "afford" to get the bodywork done properly and have it painted. The plan was always to make the car as orange as I could get it, but I never considered a matte finish. Gotta say, I love the look of the colour and matte finish. I'm not a big fan of how the wrap turned out, but the majority of the issues are based in my inexperience applying wraps. It's pretty obvious that I had never done it before. I suppose you could say that a wrap is something a patient novice can do, and that it looks pretty passable at 30 MPH. But if you get close you'll notice a few wrinkles, bubbles and spots where it's not adhered well and starting to come up. Like any body work, prep is key. And good primer. Cheap rattlecan primer will sometimes pull up and stick to the wrap when you reposition, and you can't get it back off the wrap 100%.

This is the vinyl I used: https://vvividshop.ca/collections/automotive/products/orange-matte - it is actually pretty nice stuff to work with, and adheres amazingly well (when applied correctly).

Here is a short video of me getting smoked by an Audi R8. I don't even feel bad about it - a $150K supercar better make short work of the car I built in my garage mostly out of junk. :)

A few more pictures attached. There are a bunch here, too, with some more description: https://debossgarage.com/ics2021/entry/1612195379-1972-triumph-spitfire

-- Edited by DanN on Thursday 20th of May 2021 05:30:12 PM

-- Edited by DanN on Thursday 20th of May 2021 05:31:22 PM

GrayRaceCat · Senior Member

I only just saw your reply today (28th). Thanks for the answers.

I thought it may be a wrap, it looks good to me. The only giveaway was the wrinkles at the front corner of the hood by the headlight, and you wouldn't see them when assembled.

By the way, how did the dyno go today? No "cast iron hemorrhage" at the differential? I saw the photos, nice. In photo #4, the mockup with the new differential, is the Subaru differential strong enough? I've seen several in the scrap guys truck over the years that have had broken teeth. I am (oops! was, retired Dec 2020) a mechanic and had a deal with the scrap metal guy. If he had something interesting he would leave it with me. I would do a post mortem, then give it back when done. Saw more failure modes that way than I normally would have.

It sounds good in the video, nice countryside too.

And that balance shaft is reusable, only 'slight' galling of the bearing surface! biggrin

-- Edited by GrayRaceCat on Saturday 29th of May 2021 06:12:00 AM

DanN · Veteran Member

The closer you get to the car, the more obvious it's a wrap. LOTS of imperfections. But it's not intended to be permanent, it is just to get a feel for the colour and make the car uniform until I can afford to have the bodywork done. I seriously don't have the talent for panel work. But for about $150 Canadian in material and a few hours with a heat gun (and zero previous talent) I think it turned out pretty well.

I decided to postpone the dyno day - it was pouring rain the morning of, and given I have to drive it 60 miles to the appointment, I figured it would be better to wait for a drier day... and AS SOON as I committed to canceling the appointment and working for the day, the weather cleared up in clear defiance of what Environment Canada had to say about it. So we'll try again on the 11th... and I'll make some offerings to the weather gods.

Let's be honest - balance shafts are for wussies.