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The battery.
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Where are you planning to put the battery? Some genius has put a bloody big rear axle where it used to live. 



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That's actually a pretty good question. Where we'd originally planned to put it probably won't work now so it's back to the drawing board to come up with another solution.

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False bottoms in the companion boxes and a Matiz battery in each wired in parallel

 biggrin



-- Edited by Forsh on Wednesday 5th of August 2015 01:12:32 PM

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Under the back seat base maybe?

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Just a suggestion, on two of my classic mini rally cars. I built a box close to where the wiper motor mounts, going downwards towards where the passengers feet are. Sort of pararell to the pedal box. All hid by the dashboard.

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Jamest


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my thoughts ,go BMW route (a box under the rear seat ) since the original location now has a fuel tank living there .
have you found suitable headlight updated to suit the performance that the car will hopefully end up with.
still waiting not tooo patiently for next fun show (have you asked Tetley for sponsorship yet)



-- Edited by landranger on Monday 30th of January 2017 08:45:24 PM

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I would suggest updating and going with a small lithium battery setup. Can get away with a lot of power in a small space.

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Just use the passenger footwell, i'm sure the lack of pedals gives you enough room.

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Shouldn't be too long before you find out what we're planning.

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Oh you big tease.

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Bad Obsession wrote:

Shouldn't be too long before you find out what we're planning.


 Can that be read...

"Shouldn't be too long before Episode 15 is out" !!!

?



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was that a wee hint that ep15 is being edited and may be near ready ?????? .
with lots of luck this one will have several topics not just how to make extended wheel arch molds??????
will it be near running.
not being nasty at all just a but disappointed in last with last ep content ( we know you are still trying to make a living )

keep up good work (just a bit faster??)

more power to your endeavours


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Well done Landranger!

Hardly negative at all!

Keep up the therapy and you'll soon get the all clear!

biggrin



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If they wanted to give themselves a good time, they could make the car positive earth just like all the best old BMC cars.

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Wherever the battery box is, it won't be authentic Mini unless it has a puddle siphon. Mine used to fill up with the wet stuff on days it wasn't even raining.

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Pop round the Chemist's and pick up a sleeve of 9V square batteries and then wire them in series......small enough to fit them in doors, behind the facia, up Nic's lunch bucket......or in various and sundry corners of the interior...might not need any CAD either. JUS SAYIN'

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To achieve the 100+ Amps of current from 9v batteries would probably results in a bigger / heavier setup than the normal battery.



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My math may be suspect but...

It would have to be 9v or 18v as 12v/9v= 1.3
The standard 9v battery is nominal 9v @ 400mAh (per Wikipedia), that said it would take 250 in parallel to achieve 100Ah @ 9v and 500, (two 250 packs in series) for 100Ah @ 18v
As to the weight, data varies from 45g to 100g, at 45g the 9v pack would be 11.2k or 24.64lb, the 18v pack would be 22.4k or 49.28lb
Per www.chem.hawaii.edu/uham/bat.html , most small car batteries are 45Ah, I don't know what that would be in CCA.

So, 500 9v batteries for 18v @ 100Ah and 22.4k / 49.28lb, $1.25ea = $625 US, 482.35 British Pounds.
Expensive, heavy, odd voltage, and unknown cranking capacity.

 

It might be more readily achievable with 18650 Lithium Cobalt Oxide (LiCoO2) cells (Samsung 26F).

18650 cell is nominal 3.7v @ 2600mAh (max discharge 5.2A) 47g, 18.4mm Dia x 65mm L. ($3.10 each for 100+ qty)

40 x 2600mAh = 104Ah @ 3.7v, 4 x 3.7v = 14.8v, gives us 4 packs of 40 or 160 cells total,

each pack would be roughly W=73.6mm(2.9in) x L=183.6mm(7.62in) x H=65mm(2.55in) + wiring, might fit all four under the seats!

160 cells gives us 14.8v @ 104Ah (max discharge 208A), 7.52k/16.54lb, $496 US, 382.54 British Pounds.

Expensive, light, standard voltage, better idea of cranking capacity.

I'm done now! That was fun!biggrin



-- Edited by GrayRaceCat on Wednesday 24th of May 2017 09:51:13 PM



-- Edited by GrayRaceCat on Wednesday 24th of May 2017 09:56:21 PM



-- Edited by GrayRaceCat on Wednesday 24th of May 2017 10:02:19 PM



-- Edited by GrayRaceCat on Wednesday 24th of May 2017 10:06:38 PM

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GrayRaceCat: - you need a hobby!

wink



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Too Poor! Can't afford a hobby!

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I was just rewatching episode 6. They put a ground point in the rear corner trunk floor (looks like one on each side). Not sure if you guys remembered that. (at 7:37 if you are interested)

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Great calculations, I think for car batteries, the amount of energy (normally measured in Ampere Hour) is normally not the major concern. The big current draw for the very short period of time used by the starter motor is normally the major design concern. That is also why most of the car batteries in none-electric cars are not deep cycle batteries, and battery life can be affected if drained too much.

Assuming a 9v battery can discharge at 500mA, this would still require around 200 9v batteries, it is still going to be quite heavy.



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Nice calculations but 9 cell batteries only give about 1/2 amp forcing you to use a lot of them for starting the car and they are not rechargeable. A better bet in my opinion would be the 18650 cell, 3 volts under 35 amp load. You put them in series of 4 and parallel connect 5-10 series or so and you have light powerful and compact battery. You can also buy readymade Lithium batteries for cars that would work fine.

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To recap,

1) 9v batteries = 500 9v batteries = 18v @ 100Ah and 22.4k / 49.28lb, $1.25ea = $625 US, 482.35 British Pounds.

2) 18650's = 160 cells = 14.8v @ 104Ah (max discharge 208A), 7.52k/16.54lb, $3.10ea = $496 US, 382.54 British Pounds.

As noted the 9v alkaline batteries are not rechargeable. Rechargeable 9v batteries would add considerable cost.

Plus the 18650's would require some sort of Battery Management System (BMS) to maintain balance between and avoid damage to the cells.

It looks like the best option might be an automotive AGM type battery.



-- Edited by GrayRaceCat on Monday 5th of June 2017 08:26:07 PM



-- Edited by GrayRaceCat on Monday 5th of June 2017 08:29:18 PM

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Of course this is all in theory. :)

I am certain you could get away with 20 x high capacity 18650 cells, and do not need 160. 4 in series and 5 series in parallel. The official discharge numbers for 18650 are usually continuous discharge to empty and are shown in C or Capacity. Higher capacity equals higher discharge in amperes. Momentary discharge can be very high, 10 second discharge can usually be 10 C or more, especially if cooling is used.

For balancing. The cells will never get empty under normal use, maximum current draw is when starting which only takes few seconds. So they don't need complicated balancing system. In the cells connected in series one cell cannot get more charging current than the others so they should stay balanced, if one gets slightly overcharged it will release energy in form of heat. The parallel connection is trickier but they all get the same charging voltage so they should also stay balanced. Since the maximum voltage of each 4 cells in series is much higher than the 14.4 coming from most alternators, and minimum voltage is much lower, you are very unlikely to overcharge the battery or a single cell within it.

In case someone is not sure of the terminology. A cell is a single unit that converts chemical energy to electrical energy. A battery is made of cells connected together. The 12 volt battery in most cars is made from 6 x 2 volt cells. A 1.5 volt alkaline AA battery is misnamed, it is actually a cell. The 9 volt battery is made from 6 x 1.5 volt cells.

If the 18650 cells are deemed unsuitable, how many AA rechargeable cells do you need to start Binky. :)

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None. I have started Minis many times using the traditional push-n-bump start method. Binky is of course a very standard ]Mini, so no problem

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OK I'll bite!wink

Assuming the goal is still approx 100Ah @ 13.5vdc.

The first  one I found w/Google search is, Energizer AA NiMH cells = 1.2v @ 2300 mAh, $39.00 12 pack = $3.25 ea

11 x 1.2v = 13.2v, 44 x 2300 mAh = 101.2 Ah, 484 AA cells = 13.2vdc @ 101.2Ah, 484 x $3.25 = $1573.00 !!biggrin



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biggrin



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And there's me thinking that WE over-complicate things....

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You can be as complicated as you like, in theory. It's when you have to make it, and make it work, that complication becomes an issue

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i'm going to be really complicated hold on let me build a world with people on it who decide to build whatever they want (you know what i call this place?) Earth.

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you can use a cordless drill battery pack to start a car, and you can put them in paralled because they're 12v , you would need proper charging circuits (conveniently located in a charger pack)


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You don't actually need a starter motor, just jack up and spin the wheels or point it downhill. The battery then becomes very small, just holding a teeny bit of charge to last while stationary. What could possibly go wrong?

 

PS - Apologies for absence, have been busy having a stroke. Currently in nursing home, back home hopefully end of year.



-- Edited by mike-wsm on Friday 29th of September 2017 04:44:20 PM

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mike-wsm wrote:

You don't actually need a starter motor, just jack up and spin the wheels or point it downhill. The battery then becomes very small, just holding a teeny bit of charge to last while stationary. What could possibly go wrong?

 

PS - Apologies for absence, have been busy having a stroke. Currently in nursing home, back home hopefully end of year.



-- Edited by mike-wsm on Friday 29th of September 2017 04:44:20 PM


 
Downhill starts kind of defeat the object of having a fully functional motor car I think. But it's an option should you run into a flat battery. aww

On another note, get well soon Mike. As we all know, strokes are not good.



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Mercedes batteries are under the driver seat

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mike-wsm wrote:

 

PS - Apologies for absence, have been busy having a stroke. Currently in nursing home, back home hopefully end of year.



-- Edited by mike-wsm on Friday 29th of September 2017 04:44:20 PM


 Apology accepted! biggrin

Get well soon Mike! Bet you haven't been looking forward to Christmas so much since you were writing a letter to Satan! sorry, Santa (damned dyslexic keyboard!)

 

:)



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You don't need no stinking batteries. Install magnets on the engine, retard the spark, put throttle on 25%, pull the choke and turn the crank.
Edit. Keep it in Neutral. ;)



-- Edited by andsetinn on Monday 2nd of October 2017 07:06:22 PM

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...and don't wrap your thumb around the crank handle!

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HAHA - GOTTIT!!! You are going to hook up a few of those supercapacitor thingies. There's a guy on YouTube who reckons they can replace a battery and can be put in any orientation. Not as fussy as lithium on charging etc. www.youtube.com/watch


Oooh-Errr, you still need Lithium, the Li maintains long-term voltage and the supercaps provide the starting current. Quite a long project in its own right, what with correct charging and cell balancing. Can't be done by anyone born in the northern latitudes (north of Cheltenham, say).

I predict that this post will have been retro-followed by mention of flux capacitors.

 

 


-- Edited by mike-wsm on Friday 29th of December 2017 08:58:48 PM



-- Edited by mike-wsm on Saturday 30th of December 2017 10:03:52 AM



-- Edited by mike-wsm on Saturday 30th of December 2017 10:20:00 AM

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Super capacitor or FLUX CAPACITOR!?!

Of course all the above calculations will be null and void as you would then need one point twenty one gigawatts! (or should that be JIGawatts? wink)

 

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/b9f4e1a8-75b4-4929-95a9-9764fab304ab

 

biggrin



-- Edited by Forsh on Saturday 30th of December 2017 09:08:54 AM

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I did some reading about batteries (not research cos I don't have a white coat). The capacitor 'battery' technology seems to have been pioneered by Maxwell Technologies, see:

 

For those baffled by my avatar, see:

http://mike-wsm.org.uk/luggage.html

 



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I think space is the major concern here rather than weight or capacity. Thus super capacitors might even be a worse choice than a reduced capacity conventional battery.

Lithium batteries requires complicated protection and charging circuits which takes up space, but that can be installed in 2 locations, which makes them still a possibility.

My bet is still a conventional lead acid battery designed for a modern small vehicle, it offers not only a simpler installation, but also caters to the huge current needed by the starter motor.

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mike-swm,

Good to have you back! Happy New Year!



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Me thinks the boys will fit the battery ( small lithium )

Up under the front wheel arch... between Wheel and Door Hinges.. TOP...

and make a inner protective guard.. from road bullets..(rocks)


There is a lot of space up there which cannot be accessed with a fix front mini.. but a removable front .. you have a TARDIS.


Drivers Side..so its easy to fit battery cut off switch, in reach of driver, which is also very close to the actual battery terminal. Very important for race cars.. or cars with a lot of custom wiring.


Also MINI-mal voltage drop as it's closer to the starter motor...


LiPo Small Light Tuff.. Only hassle .. the cold weather.. Lithium batteries drop performance in cold weather.. like heaps.. UK = :(


But then again.. A hot cup of Tea ( or you have already drunk the tea - full bladder ) poured over it would sort it... and once the engine started.. the heat from the engine would improve things.


Seriously the GRUNT these small batteries is amazing.. We use them a lot in Karting.. then again Richard would know that ;)


P.S. LiPo.. 2 types.. ( chemistry wise ) .. one that goes BANG-FIRE-BURN..(cheap - RC Model stuff and Chinese Segway copies ) = NO / and ones that don't... = YES


P.S.S The reason I suggest this.. is I too am look to install a Battery .. and Just want something to COPY .. :)

Win / Win MY IDEA ( or NICKs - he just hasn't realised yet ) ../ and The boys amazing Fabrication skills


P.S.S.S Trouble is ... If I asked for the CAD drawings.. it would have to be FAXED.. and would need to cut it out.



Cheers.. another RED WINE POST BY MiniMan



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Sometimes the simplest answer is the correct one.

We're wiring now, so you should see the solution in the next video.

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Bad Obsession wrote:

Sometimes the simplest answer is the correct one.

We're wiring now, so you should see the solution in the next video.


 Wiring! Yay! biggrin



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I guess wiring will result in a few through-holes and mount fittings, so needs to be done before painting. So the sequence is wire, paint, build engine, build car.

Paul

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Shall expect each wire to be held in place by a custom clamp made with RR precision and MiG welded, sanded, primed and trick photographed. Keep the standard up, lads!

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Kiwi Paul wrote:

I guess wiring will result in a few through-holes and mount fittings, so needs to be done before painting. So the sequence is wire, paint, build engine, build car.

Paul


 
My guess is that engine work (and all other remaining tasks) will be out of the way before paint. Gentlemen, place your bets... biggrin



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My money's on a full and complete trial build prior to the full strip down before paint and undercarriage powder coating and plating

smile



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